Show Notes:

Join us for part two of our conversation with JMU Vice President of Student Affairs Dr. Tim Miller (’96, ’00M) and Kathryn Hunt ('25), Student Affairs Presidential Engagement Fellow, about helping students find their place at JMU and get the most out of their Madison Experience.

Episode Transcript:

[Dr. Tim Miller]
In the world of science, if a frog is in a pond and they suddenly get sick, people look at the pond, researchers look at the pond. In human life, when someone's sick, what's wrong with them? Here we want to take a settings approach where we look at the setting of JMU and if something's not working for a student, I don't want to just assume and we don't want to assume there's something wrong with that student.

Something in their environment might be off.

[Narrator]
Welcome to Being the Change, the official podcast of James Madison University, brought to you by Madison Magazine. Each episode brings you stories of how members of the JMU community combine intellect with action to live lives of purpose and meaning. That's Being the Change.

[Andy Perrine]
What's up JMU? Andy Perrine here, welcome to Being the Change. Well, this second edition of this two-part series is learning about the tools for thriving, wellness learning and self discovery.

And this is an area that Dr. Miller really knows quite well. And JMU has a ton of academic and wellness support systems. As you said in our last episode, Tim, there's so much to avail yourself at the university.

You most likely will only use a small portion of it, but when you need it, you got to use it.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
It's there.

[Andy Perrine]
Yeah. So tell us about some of those services.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Well, one of the things that guides our work and I'm always, you're sort of the repository of all things, Andy. So I always forget who said this, but there's this saying out there, this mindset that, you know, we can spend all of our time pulling people out of the river, but at some point you should go up river and figure out why they fell in, in the first place and stop them from falling in. Right.

And maybe you'll remember, you'll remind me who this is. I think I know, but I don't want to misquote it. We do both.

Right. And one of the things that I love about what we've thought about here is that we have the, you're in the water stuff. I mean, we have those, Oh, things are really not going well.

Let's pull you out and figure it out. Right. But we also have a huge number of things, the quality and enhancement plan here, the QEP as we call it is, is the more proactive we get ahead.

We also have Madison cares that maybe when you have an initial things aren't going well, maybe a faculty member notices you've missed a class or two.

[Andy Perrine]
Right.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
You're maybe dipping your toes in the water. Right. We have all those things out there, but also amazing.

I think of UREC as an example, university rec center that has a ton of classes, everything from, you can learn to cook, you can take any number of fitness classes, but these like, Hey, let me learn these skills for myself that I know are going to be helpful for me. Health center, the health center. One of the things I love about it is that they're helping you learn how to take care of yourself.

It's not just, it's not an urgent care where you show up and they'll give you a prescription and send you out the door. They're going to talk to you about how are you taking care of yourself? How are you doing this?

Because for many of our students, the first time they've ever been sick away from home is here. And so I'm pretty sure someone else helped them realize you take Robitussin more than once and here's the schedule and you know, those types of things. So they don't know how to do those things.

And then same with counseling center. We're building skills for a lifetime there, not just I'm in crisis. Great.

We'll get you out of crisis and send you on. We're trying to help you learn these things about self care that you just don't know because someone did that for you.

[Andy Perrine]
Right.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
And I think about these as lessons for a lifetime. The other one I think about is you're probably going to have a roommate and as someone who's been married now almost 25 years, learning to live in a space with someone is a life skill. Sure.

You know, learning to do your laundry, learning to clean your space, learning all those things, learning to cook are life skills that you're going to get here as long as you're paying attention and they'll be with you forever. I mean, I'm sure you cook some meals. I'm sure you cook.

I mean, but also you're sharing space with somebody and that might sound like learning how to live with somebody life skill. That's a big deal. And lots of other things come along with that of how you manage yourself, manage other people, managing up, managing across to a roommate.

[Andy Perrine]
All those things are skills. If you're not getting along with your roommate, you're going to, your academic success is going to suffer.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Right. Well, and it's again, part of the environment. One of our pillars we talked about is environment, your room environment, your roommate environment, your hall environment, your classroom, and all these are part of the environment.

And one of the things that I love that Christina Blyer, our AVP for health and wellbeing talks about is in the world of science, if a frog is in a pond and they suddenly get sick, people look at the pond, researchers look at the pond. In human life, when someone's sick, what's wrong with them? Here we want to take a settings approach where we look at the setting of JMU.

And if something's not working for a student, I don't want to just assume, and we don't want to assume there's something wrong with that student. Something in their environment might be off. Something in sort of their relationship, security, all those things we care about might be off.

Let's look at that in the setting, not just, oh, that student's the problem. They're not. Our student is never a problem.

Student might experience problems, but let's look at the source of it and the setting around them, not just them.

[Andy Perrine]
Well, we just joined the Okanagan agreement and that's one of the basic principles. And you mentioned Dr. Blyer who runs the health center. I became very close with Dr. Blyer through the pandemic because we had a lot to do together, especially after the pandemic. We've learned that being present really matters. There was a lot of conversation in higher ed when the pandemic was first coming on. Is this going to show everybody that you don't need to be part of a community?

Can you just learn online? And the answer was absolutely not.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
It's way better when you're with people. And I think of it, what I would say, Andy, is I want people to have a three-dimensional, full-color life. If that's all we're doing is online, you're getting a flat, one-dimensional, no-color life.

JMU gives you a full-color, three-dimensional life. I want a movie, not a black and white comic strip. And that's what we want for them.

And that's what they get here in that experience because it's all these pieces, right? It's the environment around them. It's the relationships they build.

All those things together make up what the JMU experience is.

[Andy Perrine]
Well, the way you describe the frog in the pond and that we think about when we're talking about animals, there's something wrong with the environment. When we're talking about people, there's something wrong with that person. It's something of a release for a student to realize that maybe it's not me.

Maybe it's what's going on around me. How does that mindset lead to students really understanding that they can avail themselves of things that they might have thought of as shameful or something?

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Well, because usually you think, oh, there's something wrong with me. And we don't want our students to never think there's something wrong with you. Something might not be working, and there might be a piece of it that's like something about me is not fitting, but is that you or is that there?

I always want students to realize that this place is about belonging, not fitting in. Belonging means who you are is what is welcome here and will do well here. Fitting in means how have you changed yourself to fit and be accepted?

You should belong. And if you don't feel like you belong, maybe you're not in the right space. So maybe you won't belong in this room, but there's 7,000 other rooms for you to go check out.

So find the room where you belong and you're accepted for who you are, not that you have to change who you are to be allowed to be in that space.

[Andy Perrine]
I love the concept of there's a difference between belonging and fitting in. Katherine, when you arrived here, especially as a transfer student, learning the mores of the community and deciding whether or not you were going to belong or fit in and change yourself, how did you negotiate that difference?

[Kathryn Hunt (’25)]
Yeah, definitely that pressure is something that I feel like everybody comes in with of just like, oh, am I going to have to change myself? Am I going to have to change something that's about my personality and who I am just to fit into a group here? And I truly mean this at the bottom of my heart.

There is somewhere for someone somewhere at this school.

[Andy Perrine]
Everybody.

[Kathryn Hunt (’25)]
Everybody. Yeah. And I think it's really just, as I was saying in the last episode, really pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and kind of tapping into everywhere, even places that you think that you might not click. You should try it because you might click and you might find the people that, you know, are there for you, a place that you feel like you belong, not where you're having to change something about yourself to fit in, as you were saying.

[Andy Perrine]
Well, and one of the strategies, Tim, that you use in student affairs quite extensively and to great effect is a lot of peer assisted services. And that would allow a student to see, well, this person is totally different than me, but they're bringing me in. Right.

How is that effective?

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Well, it's such an important part. So first year orientation guides, frogs is how, you know, probably the second group they meet. Actually, probably the third first group they meet is student ambassadors during a tour.

So these are students that have had the experience. You can ask them great questions. You talked about your tour, that moment of the student gets it.

This is not some scripted thing. We're saying, you must say these 12 things on your tour. Second, then is the orientation peer advisors.

They meet while they're here and start building that. Then they have the frogs, then they have RAs. Then when they go to UREC, it's run by 650 students.

Then all these, then everything you're mostly doing, probably is also run by students, student organizations. So peers are part of this because they get it and they also have struggled like you've shared, like you might struggle. So when you walk in a room, you're like, I'm really having a hard time with this.

Someone in that room also has, and they can say, Oh yeah, this is the room to go to, or this is the place to go. And so peers is such a huge, important part of this. Every part from beginning to end, even if you've got a TA in your class, that's a peer who's been in that class before and been successful.

That's why they're there. They're not there just because they, you know, wanted a job. They wanted that job.

And as you think about everything you might do on the campus, you're going to have peers that have been down this road. There's a reason why we're a cohort of four years of people. The senior has been down that road already.

Maybe in a different car, maybe a different speed than you, but they've seen the road. So asking them, like I think about myself moving up from a freshman to my senior year working in a fraternity. When I was president, I had seen a lot.

I didn't see everything you saw, but at least I had something of value that I could share, some tidbit or some advice that would help you. And that's the power of this place.

[Andy Perrine]
Well, you mentioned UREC. One of the things that is so interesting over in alumni affairs, the students who work at UREC create such unbelievable bonds. You said 650.

I mean, it's almost like a fraternity and a sorority. They're so tight. It's bigger than, it's bigger than.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Yeah. Well, but I think about that. I mean, I think about orientation students where I see students that I worked with years ago, even when I was here as a student who are still friends, right.

Some who got married, right. Some who were like, you know, on their 40th year of reunions, meeting up with each other over summer, like those connections you make our life connections. And that's the thing.

I don't think our student, they think of this as a four-year experience. And that's why I always say these are not the best four years of your life, right? These are great years, but it's the foundation you build here that builds the life after.

So when you think about those relationships you're going to have, you don't know that's what those are, but they're going to be there for you in good times and bad times. And that's what, that's the foundation that they'll build.

[Andy Perrine]
We'll be right back.

[Commercial Break]
Eight-time Grammy nominated comedian, actor, writer, producer, two-time New York times, best-selling author, three times Emmy winning performer and multi-platinum recording artist. The comedic mind responsible for the Hulu special, The Skinny, Jim Gaffigan will be making a stop here in Harrisonburg as part of his Everything is Wonderful tour. Join us September 26th at 8 p.m. in the Atlantic Union Bank Center. Give them a Duke's welcome. Doors open at 7. Free parking will be available in the Ballard parking deck.

For more information, visit atlanticunionbankcenter.com.

[Andy Perrine]
Well, you know, one of the beautiful revelations that I've had at my age, you know, when you're in your twenties, you go to a lot of weddings and then they kind of tail off because all your friends had gotten married or made different decisions. Now in my sixties, I'm getting to go to all my friends' kids' weddings and they're almost all people that I've met here at JMU.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
It is a fun thing to see. And now I have, you know, I've been invited to a couple of student weddings and things like that. And then the funniest thing for me now is I've sort of been tracking my age based on things of the newest one for me is now when my former students' kids are coming here.

So I have former friends I went to school with, but now I'm starting to have like people that I worked with back in 1996 who now have been married for a while and now their kids are going to start coming to college. And I'm like, okay, you were my student and now you're bringing a student. This is like the, is this the final generation for me that I'm going to experience?

But you know, right now I have a lot of friends who have from high school and college who have kids here. The next is like people that were my students that are going to bring kids. That's going to feel really interesting.

[Andy Perrine]
Well, you know, you bring families into this and you're, you're very popular on the parent, JMU parents' Facebook page. How important it is, is it for families to stay involved, but with a little bit of, a little bit of ability to have the student find things out on their own?

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Yeah. I always tell parents that they're partners. Parents and families are partners with us.

That's how I view them. That's how we view them. This is a partnership.

And the students and the families are closer than they've ever been. There's a lot of research that shows the tightness of the family unit is more than ever has. It was already on the upswing.

And then the pandemic, when they like lived together solidly for two whole years in the same house, just went even higher. And you can't, you can't remove the parents from that and you shouldn't try. I believe very strongly in that relationship.

I also know that, that our families, they don't always know this about themselves, are a huge influence on their students still. So we on purpose, everything we send to the students, we also send to the families so they can see it. And every time I'll tell parents, I screenshot it, I send it to my daughter and I tell them, make sure you read this.

This was really good. But that's the connection. Because the students will be like, oh, well, I didn't read it by my dad or whoever, my uncle, whoever read it and said, you should look at this.

That matters in both ways. It also creates a talking point for them because I want them to talk about this experience. They should be not just how school, fine, not a complete sentence.

You should have real like in-depth conversations about this experience because they both want to know about each other because of that closeness.

[Andy Perrine]
Well, and also you really don't know a thing fully until you have to explain it to somebody and talking with folks who really care about you and understand you about your experience really matters. Right.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
And having an encouraging families that are listening, don't ask questions that can be answered with fine. Right. Talk to me what you learned today in your blah, blah, blah class.

You know, like let's have some open end conversation. And I think because, and I'm interested in your experience with your family on this, Kathryn, they talk quotes so much that they think that they're engaging at a high level, but how's your day? Good.

Seven texts in the day is not talking a lot. Right. It's a number of interactions, but it's not deep conversation.

It's not what I think they really should have. I think they should get on an actual phone or a zoom or a FaceTime and actually engage on what's going on. Cause it's such a cool, this is such an amazing transformational time.

I think they should both be able to talk about that. I'm interested in what your family is.

[Andy Perrine]
And you went through the pandemic and mostly in high school and you got here afterwards. So what was that dynamic like for you?

[Kathryn Hunt (’25)]
I mean, for me with my parents coming into college and being a transfer student I was at a community college before, so I was still living at home. So I still went through that same transition that all of the incoming freshmen are going through with their parents of just, you know, it's, you're directly going into a new stage in your life. And I can't even imagine how scary that is for parents.

You know, it's like you hold them so close to you and now you're, they're going into adulthood and they're going to have to figure things out on their own. But that's, what's so great about it is that, you know, people can finally, students can finally find their independence and, and kind of be able to explore what they are. And, you know, obviously having that connection with your parents is super important.

And like you were saying, it's a lot more important to either like get on a zoom or call them actually have like real conversations with open-ended, open-ended questions and, and be able to talk about your experiences because your parents are definitely curious about what's going on. They're definitely wanting to know all the details of how everything's going and they're going to want to know everything that's going on. It's their first time being away from you for a long extended period of time.

So I think that's just something that's really important for incoming freshmen or incoming students going through that stage change is just being able to actually communicate with your family about what's going on with you and, and having real conversation.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Right. And just because, you know, their location on life 360 doesn't mean, you know, what's going on. And there's a reason Andy, why, as you know, I end every single one of my orientation speeches with a thank you for the families for trusting us.

This is a huge choice, not only the school, but choosing to send them away and choosing to trust a place. And I think that we as institutions have to take that really seriously and really sacred. Like they're, they're trusting us with the lives of their child.

It's a huge moment for a family and it's not just, Oh, once they drop them off and have the moment of moving that it's gone, they, they have to feel good all the time. And that doesn't mean they're going to know everything. That doesn't mean that we're going to communicate everything that's going on, but we're going to be involved and they have to feel good about where they leave their child and it's their child.

And some people don't like when we say that it is their child. They might be a student now in a Duke, but they're still their parent's child. Even I was my mom's child.

And now still, I think that we'd have to accept that that is the relationship. And so how do we work with it and make sure it's a good relationship with us, with them and with their student and us and them.

[Andy Perrine]
I think the university is quite lucky because that tradition started with Dr. Carrier in the seventies. And he was a deep believer in that sacredness of, of that relationship. We know in, in, in talking about family conversations one of the things that, that you're quite thoughtful about Tim is, is trying, failing, adjusting, keep moving and being able to talk to your folks about that is not only will you get advice because your folks have tried, failed, adjusted and move forward.

But it also can create even tighter bonds.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Well, you know, I had no idea my dad struggled in college until I struggled in college. And I came home and he said, look, I wasn't a great student. You know, I really struggled.

You've had your struggle year, freshman year. I need you to find the next gear. I think he said, literally find the next gear here and do better because we can't keep doing this for four years.

But he's like, because I struggled, I get it. I'm giving you a little grace, but it's a little grace. And I learned more about my dad.

[Andy Perrine]
Right. Right.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
You know, I didn't know that he played basketball, but not all four years because he got tired of playing basketball. He was the starting center at William & Mary for his three of his four years. Cause he's like junior.

I didn't feel like it. And then senior, they asked me to come back and I had no idea. So the closeness with my father increased when we talked about struggle and shared some really open things.

I'm like, I never knew my stuff about my dad. My dad's a person. Yeah.

[Andy Perrine]
There's a depth to him.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Like he's also a three-dimensional, you know, full color picture, but the relation, like I felt like I was becoming an adult with my adult parents.

[Andy Perrine]
Yeah. That's cool.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
And as my dad pointed out, we're not friends. Right. I'm still the parent, but I knew them more because we talked about hard things and I talked about what was hard for me.

I mean, my mom didn't want me to come cause I was on crutches. So there was this whole, do we defer for a semester thing? And I'm like, it's time to go.

I'm ready to go and I'll figure it out. But all those things like were just really helpful. And I learned more and I actually loved them more through that process and that open conversation and learning about each other.

[Andy Perrine]
Yeah. Well, you know, you make a great distinction between surviving and thriving. You know, as we bring this episode to a close, give us some of your thoughts about the, the, the, the ways that you can thrive and not just survive that are accessible to everybody.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
Yeah. I would say survival is the basic, right? I mean, this is, you get enough food, you get enough, all these things, you know, this should not be a survival process.

There's too many great services and resources here for people to just survive. So the thriving is about, are you living the best? And students have said, you know, living their best life.

What does that mean? And what does it mean to get towards that? So that means you're actually making good choices about your food.

You're making good choices about your time. You're making good choices about your exercise, all these things that make up your life. You're making good choices about who your friends are and who they're not.

You're removing the people that aren't the right people and who aren't the right people. You probably know, but sometimes they're really cool. I'm like, okay, but what do, what does that coolness lead you down the road to?

How many times have you seen flashing lights when you've been out at night? Right. Are those the right people?

Right. So thriving is about what are the things that serve you and fill you up? You know, one of the things I always want students to think about is that in life, you're trying to build that best life for yourself.

And long time, you're trying to find your life purpose. And as someone who's living it now, I feel like I'm mildly an expert on getting there mostly, mostly through failure. But finding that life purpose is what are you good at?

What is something, what are the things you're really good at doing? What do you love to do? What do you love about life?

What serves the world, serves the world around you? What does someone pay you to do? Because you got to pay the bills, but also what serves yourself.

You can find the things where all five of those things come together and it's not going to happen in college, but you're going to start building those pieces. Right. In the very middle of that is your life purpose.

That's what we're trying to help them get. And when you get there and you're serving all those things, that to me is when you're thriving.

[Andy Perrine]
Yeah.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
And that's what we're, you're on the path of that and building the foundation of that to then find more and more. I'll be honest with you, my life purpose didn't happen until I got here back here in 2018. The other years before that, you know, the 40, 40, whatever years, 45 years before that weren't failure years.

They were building towards that I am probably at the most thriving now, especially in the work world, but in my life in this space, but it took 45 years to get there. And I didn't know it immediately when I got here, but now I know it. That's what we want.

[Andy Perrine]
When you're kind of describing the essence of the concept of being the change, um, in that you're, you're, you're looking for ways, um, to not only build yourself up, but figure out how you can build the world up, um, along with it. Cause that gives you purpose. Right.

[Dr. Tim Miller]
That's how you find that life purpose.

[Andy Perrine]
Yeah. Yeah. So how did you find the difference between surviving and thriving when you were a student, Kathryn?

[Kathryn Hunt (’25)]
Um, for sure. Like coming in, you also have, um, I think some influence from your parents of maybe their opinions on what you should be doing, what you should be majoring in and what you should be doing as a career. But while you're finding your independence here, you're also figuring out what you actually want to do or finding like Tim said, your purpose here, because at the end of the day, that's your decision to choose what you want to do with your, with your life, with your career, finding something that you're passionate about, something that you really want to do.

And there are so many resources here. Something I've definitely figured out as I've been an engagement fellow, there are so many more resources than even I knew that I could access while I was even a student. And I think students should definitely take more advantage of that than they do because there are there's, there's definitely whatever problem that you're having, there's something there for it.

There is a resource or a person that can help you with that and can guide you and help you fix your problem very easily. It's just being able to reach out and being able to just make that phone call or go, go to the student success center or go to the union or there's, there's somebody out there who's going to know the answer. Even it's just such a friendly environment too, that you can just go up to somebody walking on the quad and ask and they might know or can tell somebody or can guide you to somebody that would know.

So I think it's just important to try to find something that you're passionate about while you're here and, and then go forward with that.

[Andy Perrine]
And as Dr. Miller says, be open. Right. Hey, you got to be open to those experiences.

Yeah. Well, as we conclude Dr. Miller, any words for the beginning of the semester here?

[Dr. Tim Miller]
I always want you to enjoy the ride and enjoy the journey. Even the bumps are great because you look back and be like, wow, I learned so much from that. Embrace this, enjoy it.

Tell your family how you're doing good and bad. Right. And I think, and I think holding the doors is, hold the door open to this experience.

Your room door and your residence hall, the door in the classroom, don't just sit alone in the classroom, go sit next. Be open to all these things. Hold the door open for someone else, but then talk to them.

Be open to someone sitting with you at the dining hall. When you're at the gym, ask if you can work in with somebody. Every place that you are, just sort of make a quick, hey.

It's amazing to me how many, how many times people will make fun of me. I say hi to everybody I see on campus. You know, sometimes I'm stuck on my own phone trying to do something, but usually I'm up.

I'm waving. I don't know who everybody is. We're saying, hey, how are you?

Have a good day. Go Dukes, whatever. That moment could be the best moment of that person's day so far.

So be the best moment for other people. It's such an amazing gift we can have.

[Andy Perrine]
That's great advice. Well, thanks to you both for being on the podcast. Maybe we'll have you back in the middle of the year.

Katherine, we're really interested to learn more about your experience as an engagement fellow. So good luck this year.

[Kathryn Hunt (’25)]
Thank you.

[Andy Perrine]
All right. Well, thank you both so much. Thanks.

Appreciate it. Listeners, remember, if you've got any ideas for future episodes or feedback on the podcast, you can reach us at beingthechange at jmu.edu. Until next time, go Dukes. Go Dukes.

[Andy Perrine]
Go Dukes.

[Narrator]
Thanks for listening. Subscribe to hear more stories about how members of the JMU community are being the change. Dive deeper and explore countless other stories at jmu.edu slash Madison Magazine. Go Dukes.

[Andy Perrine]
The Being the Change podcast was conceived by Jim Heffernan, editor of Madison Magazine, and me, Andy Perrine, head of JMU Marketing. Thanks to Jenna Polk and her team at the Rose Library Studios, where the show is recorded by Cody Troyer, Steve Adderton, and Olive Santos, all of the crazy talented JMU photo video team who then produced the final episodes at the Ice House in downtown Harrisonburg. Original music by 2019 alumnus, Neil Perrine.

You can find the Being the Change podcast on all the popular platforms where we hope you like, share, and subscribe.